Read this. -takeoff(again) @蒙特利尔华人论坛:蒙特利尔枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Montreal

枫下茶话 / 法律 / 让我们团结起来，抵制枫叶卡。 -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-14 {896} (#855346@0)
让我们团结起来，抵制枫叶卡。
1 –
加拿大政府修改移民纸的安全性(效果如何，且不讨论) ，为何让移民出钱。
2 –
对新移民免费，对老移民收费，也不妥。
3 –
条件苛刻，无法理解。

我曾电活给移民局，对方无法解释，说要找人给我回电话，至今无消息。
让我们团结起来，抵制枫叶卡。

换发加拿大枫叶卡的办法终于出台,不知道各位新移民朋友感觉如何?我觉得我们就象猴一样被加国政府耍了一把.众所周知,我们是合法移民,换发枫叶卡是加国政府的需要,而不是我们强求!我们手上的移民纸本来就是合法的身份文件,既然政府要求换发,为什么要设置那么多的苛刻条款?非但费钱而且费时!根本没有理由叫新移民掏这笔钱!还要找什么保证人,我们是今年才登陆的,到哪里去找合格的保证人?如果找不到,还要公证,我想请问加国政府:换发枫叶卡的初衷是什么?对所有移民有什么好处?我们为什么要为政府付出这么多的金钱和精力?我真不知道,那么多华人社团,这个时候都干什么去了?还有什么华人议员,这个时候你们为什么不站出来说话?
总之,我觉得加国的做法实在是既不合法也不合理.

what CIC really wants to do is make money: Please count how much is this: 150million immigrants *($50 application fee + $50 notary+photo)... -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-14 (#855354@0)

Does 枫叶卡 apply to an Australia Citizen who also has Canadian Citizen? It looks like dual nationality policy of canada is conflict with the regulation of the 枫叶卡. -seraphim(摇滚小乖); 2002-11-15 (#855983@0)

枫叶卡是给加拿大移民的，跟公民没关系。加拿大有150million immigrants吗？ -lonetour(游子); 2002-11-15 (#856511@0)

Sorry. I mean 1.5 million. Alway used to the chinese way of counting. This is the number in CIC's official document. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856642@0)
加拿大公民跟枫叶卡有关系. Canadian Citizen also can keep Australia Citizenship, therefore 加拿大公民 can keep Australia Citizenship with 移民 status and 枫叶卡 under Dual Nationality Policy of Canada -seraphim(摇滚小乖); 2002-11-16 (#858469@0)

Sigh. I really don't get what you are saying. One word, a Canadian citizen cannot apply for a PR Card, no matter what other citizenship s/he holds too. -lonetour(游子); 2002-11-16 (#858839@0)

Why Dual Nationality Canadian citizens cannot apply for a PR Card? Dual Nationality Canadian citizen can use their Australia or English Passport with 枫叶卡 based on Dual Nationality Policy of Canada. -seraphim(摇滚小乖); 2002-11-16 {521} (#858876@0)
Based on Dual Nationality Policy of Canada, Dual Nationality Canadian citizens don't have to use their Canadian Passport, Dual Nationality Canadian citizens are still Canadian citizens while they are using their Australia or English Passport, but they have to use their Canadian Passport if they couldn't get 枫叶卡 based on new immigration policy.any Canadian citizen cannot apply for a PR Card under new immigration policy.It looks like dual nationality policy of canada is conflict with the regulation of the 枫叶卡.

被你绕的有点糊涂：P。我只知道 permanent resident和citizen是在法律上规定很严格的词，而顾名思义PR card是给PR的，所以一定不适用于citizen。 -rockywei(落基山); 2002-12-20 (#926902@0)

我也正在研究你们讨论的这个问题。我想这必须举例才能说清。 -qingchuanlili(qingchuan); 2003-1-13 {476} (#972882@0)
现在的枫叶卡是不许加拿大公民申请，已经申请的一旦入籍就自动取消（CIC网站上这么说）。
对原来持中国护照的PR, 申请了加拿大公民后就有可能再无法延期中国护照（中国驻加使馆对护照延期要求：已在加住满五年的需提供未入加籍证明，不知在中国境内延期护照是否可以绕过这条），也就等于放弃了中国国籍。但是如果原来持的护照国承认双重国籍，就不会有无法延期原住国护照的问题，所以双重国籍还是可以保留。
所以枫叶卡是堵塞了一些漏洞，我们这些想拿双重国籍的中国人就没戏了。不知大家认为我的理解对不对。

支持！起草一份抗议信，收集各议员办公室的电邮或传真号(他们网站上有)，大家各自给他们发，众多的声音才会引起民意代表们的注意。 -junwang689(Wang Jun); 2002-11-15 (#855849@0)

Yes. -cae(cae); 2002-11-15 (#856043@0)
再支持一下。尽管我可以不用办枫叶卡，但我还是支持一把 -chenql26(真的不懂); 2002-11-15 (#856082@0)
枫叶卡 is sh*t! -cl2000(cl); 2003-1-12 (#971068@0)

hands // -lusi(丑小鸭); 2002-11-15 (#856136@0)

6。28后的新移民枫叶卡的50块钱好象在landing fee中已经包括(他们的landing fee 涨了50)，我们倒是多交了公证费。移民部是为那些移民公司赚钱，并增加自己的工作机会，不至于下岗。 -yellowpage(yellowpage); 2002-11-15 (#856499@0)

对6月30日以后拿到LANDING PAPER的人,无需填任何的表格,卡自会寄到. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-21 {315} (#868418@0)
And they need not pay more $50. and they saved lots of time on this.
It's really unfair.

This is also apply for those recieve their landing paper and landed in Canada after 6.28. Luck!
SO do you think we should try this. If the CIC is able to give them for free, why charge us, and give us some much trouble.

抗议信的样本(建议修改后再发) -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2002-11-15 {2178} (#856537@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Dear Officer,

I am upset by the extraordinary requirement of finding a guarantor in order to apply a permanent residential card. Only landed in Canada around one year, how could I find a person who has known me personally at least 2 years? Needless to say that the most general Canadians are unqualified for this guarantor except those who are high-leveled professional Canadians. I guess maybe my friends need 10 or more years of hard work in Canada for being those top persons.

I am aware that I can still apply in this case by my declaring an oath that certified by an oath administrator. How could we make sure one is honest by only an oath? Is this necessary?

Before I got the immigration visa, I submitted bunch of either certified or notarized documents, including employment status, working resume, education diploma, no criminal conviction certificate etc. and even an interview by the Canadian Consulate officer after several years of waiting. If the government did not believe in me or any authorities certified my original application, I even could not get this visa, then why we should redo all these things from the beginning again?

I understand that Sep. 11th is the root cause for this card and agree that we should enhance our security system. But this application with the oath administration and certified documents really costs us a lot includes time consider we are just beginners in Canada and we just paid for the expensive immigration fee and we will have to pay the citizenship fee soon, as most of us only with a low income now even do not have a job.

Actually I love Canada very much although I am just a permanent resident, I am very happy when some new friends here call me new Canadian, while I feel sad that it seems I was regarded as one of foreigners or even suspect of terrorist. I really hope that the requirements to find a guarantor or an oath could be eliminated.

Best regards,

Yours truly,
XXXXX
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

公民部：
Ministry of Citizenship
6th floor, 400 University Avenue
Toronto, Ontario M7A 2R9
mailto:info@mczcr.gov.on.ca

移民部：
Minister@cic.gc.ca更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Great! -haihai(海海); 2002-11-15 (#856567@0)
好极了，你真是说干就干！ -cx57(冷月); 2002-11-15 (#856591@0)

嘿嘿，已经干了一个多月了。发给了Sun、Toronto Star、Metro Today，MIssissauga News、公民与移民部部长、还有一个官，忘了。 -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2002-11-15 {59} (#856601@0)
可惜，迄今为止未得到任何回复。 :((((((((((((((((( 555555555

then pls refer: #816892. -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#856716@0)

It's not a new one. pls refer: #762385 -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#856712@0)

Great! Thanks. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856604@0)
It's not only guarantor! it's the respect to all our immigrants. and also the fee, the time, and the trouble. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856746@0)
Suggestion: change "extraodinary" in the first line of your letter to "extremely unreasonable". -ruoer(若儿); 2002-11-16 (#857908@0)
great! 有大规模的示威活动我一定参加！ -lostincanda(lostincanada); 2002-12-20 (#926832@0)
pyramid, Great job. I noticed that from another notes that you come from Motorola, me too, maybe we can talk to each other someday. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-12-23 (#931537@0)

Sure, why not. Just click and send me an email. -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2003-1-12 (#971142@0)

支持，不过光发信解决不了问题，如果能组织一个游行什么的，把声势搞大，估摸能起点作用 -hawkbear(醉里挑灯看剑); 2002-11-15 (#856632@0)

到哪里游？我要报名参加。 -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2002-11-15 (#856659@0)

多伦多哪位大侠能组织一下，大家就在rolia上报名 -hawkbear(醉里挑灯看剑); 2002-11-15 (#856677@0)

Where is the CIC office in Toronto area? -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856679@0)

Definitely disgree -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 {806} (#856689@0)
1: PR card is subject to the need of National security. National security is an emergent issue after 9-11. And it is in the highest priority over all. Everyone including permenant residents must conform it and make any possible contributions if need.

2: The applicants under new ACT have to pay $550 application fee, while you only paid $500.

3: There are no any difficulties for me to apply the card although I have been here for only about 7 months. In addition to $50 application fee, I only spent $8.99+tax for photos.

Don't be so naive to protest against the PR Card policy. I ensure you that you won't get any helpful response and at last you have to apply the card. Remember, this is about national security. A country will scarifice any individual's alleged rights regarding that issue.

找骂？ -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2002-11-15 (#856707@0)

pls refer #816892 again. I only expressed my opinion. By the way, I am really curious whether you are ready to apply the card since there is no response to your stupid protest letter? -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#856732@0)

the request from CIC for this PR card is absolutly not resonalbly. Are you happy with that? -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856757@0)

I am not happy with that. Actually I also think it's unreasonable. But I will try my best to obey the requirements instead of wasting time to protest. I am going to pick up my card next week. It cost me about $60 totally. -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#856769@0)
The resaon I immigrate to Canada is becasue it's a free country and I can express my own opoion, not like in China. So same as I feel it's not resonable and I want to do something. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 {442} (#856787@0)
I called them and no answer, and leave my number to them, and wait for their answer, and I want to get help for my fellow people.
Believe this. this is Canada, a FREEDOM county.
ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE.
If everybody just obey the rule, why not stay at home? While we are not intend to have trouble with the government, instead, we want to help them do their job well.

Trust us, if we win, you will get re-fund of all your expense $60.

I have already said that the PR Card is an issue concerning national security. Don't waste your time, you won't get any valuable response. Believe me, no country will give up their policy regarding security issue. -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 {127} (#856838@0)
Furthermore, I don't want to get my $60 refund. I came here to live a peaceful and tranquil life instead of hustle and bustle.

Ok, I know what type of person you are. Most of Chinese who lived in China are like this. Most of time, myself. But we need do something. If you don’t dare to … Don’t stop others to fight for you. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856856@0)

Don't use the word 'dare'. It's none of business to bravery. I dare to do everything if need. But this time, it's worthless and time comsuming. -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#856879@0)

Worthless? How can you know if you don't even try it? -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#856992@0)

A country will scarifice any individual's alleged rights regarding that issue. --你还是回中国去算了。CCP的统治方式更适合你。 -smallwhale(喝不了咖啡); 2002-11-15 (#856814@0)

That issue means NATIONAL SECURITY. It's much more important than any individual's rights. No one can enjoy his/her rights if the national security is threatened. -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#856847@0)

Do you really believe the card will solve the national security issue? Even the answer is yes, it’s the responsibility of the government to prepare the card. Why they charge us so much? -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 {268} (#856865@0)
Do you really believe the card will solve the national security issue?
Even the answer is yes, it’s the responsibility of the government to prepare the card. Why they charge us so much? And give us so trouble, we already have too many difficulties in the new county.

Read this. -takeoff(again); 2002-11-15 {828} (#857778@0)
OK, It is about national Security, good reason.

So, The landing paper becomes somthing useless, because that paper is not reflecting a correct background, or personal profile of a new immigrant.

This is the fault of CIC, to correct this, everybody lives in Canada should do something, because it is about NATIONAL SECURITY! Why just give the load to the poorest persons?

My opinion is the unic number on the landing paper is definitely recorded in a database of the CIC computer systems. If they can not prove your legality to live in Canada now, they will not be able to prove it any time in the furture, the robbing will happen again.

We are here because we believe that Canada is a country that the democracy takes major position. If that is not the case, then there is no meaning to be here any more.

//Leo

200% agree. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-18 (#861519@0)

我想问一下，纯粹好奇，没有别的什么意思：如果抗议没有结果，你准备怎么办？坚决抗争到底，不办枫卡？还是先办了卡，然后再讨个说法？ -lmx(流氓兔); 2002-11-15 (#857009@0)

Good question. This is just what I want to know from prymid. -jqian(Q_Q); 2002-11-15 (#857135@0)
我的意见是：闹是要闹一闹的，起码要让人听到有反对的声音。因为这是我自己可以左右的。但是有没有作用，也不是我说了算。最后没有结果，枫叶卡还要申请。 -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2002-11-15 {232} (#857176@0)
这就是我的人生哲学，我会尽自己最大的努力，但是也要面对现实。我只改变我能改变的，我已经尽了力。只有在没有办法的时候，我才会逆来顺受，不会上来就接受一个我反对的东西。

其实这也是佛教的世界观的精华，注重过程，尽最大的努力，接受结果。

Thanks. Good point. -lmx(流氓兔); 2002-11-15 (#857789@0)
IF you cannot beat 'em, join 'em -muou5799(muou); 2002-11-16 (#858456@0)

Yeah. But anyway I will try to see if I can or not. -pyramid(㊣金字塔); 2002-11-17 (#859637@0)

I will not apply, maybe wait for tow more years to apply citizenship. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-15 (#857220@0)

I agree . but useless. -yellowp(ye); 2002-11-15 {45} (#857145@0)
有用吗?

你的帖子 -ocaendeep(北极熊绝版 Zzz Zzz); 2002-11-15 {92} (#857213@0)
颜色不够黄

what do you mean? -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-18 (#861514@0)

挡车? -blaise(int,...); 2002-11-16 (#858462@0)
抵制是"螳臂挡车"之举,不过可以强烈抗议,要求政府给我们免费办风叶卡 -jacky2001(beyond); 2002-11-17 (#859713@0)

强烈抗议,政府会给我们免费办风叶卡，还会把这个移民部长搞下台。 Believe it, this is Canada. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-21 (#868483@0)

没有用的 -greeting(随便看看); 2002-11-17 (#860599@0)
看来，团结起来不容易--尤其是中国人。起码大家应该都给移民局打个电话表示不满。我决定不去申请。大不了，2004年后不回去--省钱良方--加国经济又少了一点消费刺激。 -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-18 {158} (#861508@0)
看来，团结起来不容易--尤其是中国人。起码大家应该都给移民局打个电话表示不满。
我决定不去申请。
大不了，2004年后不回去--省钱良方--加国经济又少了一点消费刺激。

ＤＸ，把精力花在别的更有意义的事情上，你会更有出息的。 -mafan(麻烦); 2002-11-18 (#861546@0)

How about I charge you $30-50 to help you apply for this Card. -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-18 (#861831@0)

支持etobicoke啊！！！！ -renter(土豆条); 2002-11-19 (#863985@0)

agree -asdf701(asdf); 2002-11-19 (#864478@0)
坚决支持,实在是太不像话,所以我到现在也没有办,希望大家骨头能够硬起来. -rror(斧头帮黄金左脚); 2002-11-20 (#867062@0)
据调查，50% 以上的人都不满意枫叶卡。但都敢怒不敢言。 -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-21 {52} (#868394@0)
据调查，50% 以上的人都不满意枫叶卡。但都敢怒不敢言。

56.7% http://www.51.ca/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16136 -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-21 (#868397@0)

移民部长企图发行公民身份证，造否决。公民们可不好惹。 -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-11-28 {52} (#881922@0)
移民部长企图发行公民身份证，造否决。公民们可不好惹。
华联会网上游行已有200人网上请愿 -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-12-2 (#890914@0)
评论：移民要变成二等公民了吗？ -etobicoke(Toronto); 2002-12-17 {4173} (#919817@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛近日从渥太华国会传来令人无比吃惊的消息，移民法将有重大的改变，新的移民法将给予移民官更大的权力。移民法第18条修正案已经提交国会讨论。该条例规定，如果不是出生在加拿大，而是由移民转变成的公民，将随时面临一种危险的处境，移民部会在接到某些诉告以后，再次审查其公民资格，而以前按照法律规定的审查小组将简化成为一位移民部指定的移民官员。而且，一旦这位移民官认定某些提交的反面证据有效，可以立时解除其人的公民资格。即使有些对于法庭来说无效的证据也可以有效，这一切判断的权限都在这一位移民官的手中，而没有任何监督，也不必符合法律程序。该移民官所做出的决定为最终裁决，被裁决人没有任何机会申请上诉，该法案并没有设置任何正常的渠道可以令人有申诉的可能。鉴于该法案仅仅针对不在加拿大出生的人有效，虽然还没有正式通过，但是已经在可以接触到这一法案的人群中惹起了轩然大波。一个人的公民资格是否有效，将来可能取决于某一个移民官，而不是由法律决定。本地出生的人生来就是法定的公民，而他的公民资格并不受该法案的制约，移民部的官员并不会对他的公民资格进行任何的审查。

我们看到这里，不禁想问：移民要变成二等公民了吗？

蔡宏安先生（Royal Pacific Realty CEO）：如果这条法案可以在国会通过的话，那么移民就是变成了事实上的二等公民。是否生在加拿大本土变成了一个在法律上可以获得不同待遇的砝码。

加拿大是一个法制化的国家，但是这条法律的规定却把法律踏在脚下。一个移民部的普通官员，可以不经过任何法律程序，取消一个非本土出生的人的公民权，这绝对是不正常的，不符合法律面前人人平等的基本原则。做为移民和公民的不同，现在来讲只有一点，就是选举权的问题，移民而非公民没有选举与被选举权，这一点可以理解，每个国家都有这样的规定。参加选举，必须具有该国的公民资格。但是在其它方面，我们享有的各种权利和义务都应该是完全相同的。不应该有双重的标准。自由党里面有些人一贯戴著有色眼镜看人，尤其对于外来的移民有著根深蒂固的反感，搞出一些专门对付、限制移民的条条框框。其实只能说目光短浅，对于加拿大长期的稳定和发展有百害而无一利。

我们想问问想出这条修正案的官员，如果在法律上，每个公民不能获得平等的对待，那么是不是可以联想说，每个公民将获得的刑罚也是不一样的呢？举个简单的例子，如果现在有两个恐怖分子，一个是加拿大出生的，一个不是，但是都是加拿大的公民，是不是他们将面临不同的待遇或惩罚？我想是不会的。如此法案出台，必将严重践踏加拿大法律的威严和公正。

将来这些移民法的条例都要张贴在加拿大海外各使领馆，那么那些还没有来到加拿大的准移民们，就真的要想一想，是否要来加拿大。来了，就要面对一个不公正的待遇，变成二等公民，还有谁会来呢？加拿大地广人稀，想发展经济，必然要引进人才，所以移民政策一直是加拿大的一条基本国策。现在即将出台的这条法案，与加拿大基本国策背道而驰，对加拿大的长远发展有极大的害处。简直是搬起石头砸自己的脚。

据说该法案在民意测验中没有什么大的反对声音，我认为可以解释。加拿大外来人口只有600万，可以说在全国人口中是占少数的。而这种只针对少数族裔的法案在民意测验中却只能反映加拿大多数种族的意见，不是一个很奇怪的事情吗。针对少数人的法案，却去征求多数人的意见，根本不顾及少数族裔的感受，这样出台的法案能够公平吗？这不是倒推历史的车轮吗？

明年的一月底，国会将派一个专门的小组来温哥华征求意见，巧合的是，到时候刚好是华人的农历新年，到时候是否有足够来自华裔的反对声音？为什么要选择这个时刻来温哥华，我们不能做任何猜测，但是这个时间段的确给我们华人提出自己的意见带来了不便。我很希望到时候有很多华人可以站出来，大声地说：不！郭先生（新入籍的移民，来自大陆）：有这样的事情？我真的不知道。我认为加拿大是一个平等的社会，一个法律公正的社会，所以我们一家来了这几年以后才会想到入籍的问题。我们刚刚申请入籍成功，正式成为加拿大公民。

这消息实在令人吃惊，这么说如果有人想成心和我过不去的话，只要去移民部告我，移民官看到他的证据并且认可的话，我们就会被取消公民的资格。这简直令人无法置信。移民部也可以随便找一个人来告我，因为他们并不用出示任何证据或证人，只要他们觉得正确并相信就可以结案。这还是法制国家吗？如果回过头来，我一定不会入籍了，这不成了二等公民了吗？我本来认为，只要入了国籍，就已经成为加拿大真正的一员了，现在看来这个想法还有商量的余地，这叫什么事情？！

如果这条法案可以通过的话，从加拿大的角度来看，绝对是一件错事。以后越来越少移民来加拿大，现在在加拿大的，也会更想回国发展了。我有些朋友处在举棋不定的状态，对于是否回国或入籍拿不定主意。我一向对他们说，加拿大绝对公平，更注重人性，来加拿大没有错，对自己、对孩子都有好处。现在简直就象打自己的脸么。这加拿大怎么了？怎么会出这样的提案？是不是这些人的本意就是想赶走移民啊？我实在不清楚了。加拿大出这种提案，我认为对加拿大本身来说就是一种耻辱！更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
agree -resp4child(教育基金); 2002-12-20 (#926792@0)
but, .... -resp4child(教育基金); 2002-12-20 (#926795@0)
信改的怎样了，要不要签名支持。算我一个，还有我们全家，及相关朋友20人！ -21cn(21CN); 2002-12-20 (#926881@0)
俗话说“柿子要检软的捏”。 -rockywei(落基山); 2002-12-20 {264} (#926937@0)
移民就是软柿子，因为政府知道移民（其实是新移民，老移民大多都入籍了）没多大能耐，无法对政府施加真正的压力，还记得有句话“国家是属于公民的”。同时政府也知道永久居民的身份对大多数移民来说只是过渡，等事过境迁也就没人在乎了。这种情况下，虽然我赞成情愿，但觉得不会有用。
也许您的愿望是好的，但是我想绝对不会有结果的，还是团结在其他方面啊。 -xuqiszh(老苏州); 2002-12-23 (#931668@0)

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