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thetruthseeker
Junior Member
Registered: Tuesday, 03 April 2001
Posts: 3
Spy plane - American Propaganda? Maybe we're wrong for once?
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Can we all read between the lines here please?! Our plane was spying on the Chinese and they responded. No matter what our government would like us to believe, we're the ones at fault here. We screwed up and our plane had to land in "enemy" territory. We need to suck it up and accept that. Bush is now demanding that they return our plane and the technology aboard it as if they had stolen it from us. What a joke. Do you think if the shoe were on the other foot, that we would return their technology? Of course not. The last time I checked, the expression "to the victor go the spoils" still applies. Not that China has won any war over us here, but we clearly screwed up and our new President can't own up to it and is trying to play it off to the American public like it's the fault of the Chinese. His unwillingness to stop the buck will hurt our relations with China and possibly get us into a confrontation. Why did we elect him again? What a moron.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 13:21
Ryaner
Member
Registered: Tuesday, 06 February 2001
Posts: 180
We weren't spying
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The united states was doing intelegance gathering, not spying. Spying is espionage. China is at fualt and owes the u.s an apology for harrassing our aircraft in international airspace.
Your prabobly a communist anyway.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 13:46
MEllickson
Junior Member
Registered: Monday, 12 February 2001
Posts: 2
American aircraft
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The EP-3 Orion is not a spy plane, it is a surveilance plane. All countries use this type of aircraft for the same thing. Our plane was over international waters, and was doing nothing wrong. The Chinese fighters that intercepted it (which is also a routine occurance) were far more maneuverable than the lumbering Orion, and thus the responsibility was on them to make sure that something like this didn't happen. With the recent history of Chinese espionage against the United States, I wouldn't doubt that this was not an accident at all. How better to get a hold of state of the art American Technology? And yes, if they don't return the plane they are thieves, and if they continue to hold the crew, they are no more than terrorists.
We need to get our people and equipment back at ANY cost. And anyone who thinks differently doesn't belong in the military. After all, would you want to fight with someone who would leave you behind?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 14:08
geography
Member
Registered: Friday, 24 November 2000
Posts: 139
Any cost? Equipment is equipment
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Forget about the airplane. It is China's now.
And surveilance is not spying? Is the U-2 not a spy plane?
A spy plane is a spy plane, and the EP-3 is a spy plane. AND it was in a very sensitive area. If we are going to have planes in the Gulf of Tonkin (THAT place again!), then we must be prepared for the occassional loss.
Would you be angry if China had spy planes "routinely" flying off the Southern Coast of the U.S. in the Gulf of Mexico? Or even off of the West Coast?
Let's just take a deep breath and think about this. China's planes got a little frisky when the P-3 refused to leave the area, and an accident happened.
Remember, people, we just bombed their embassy a year and a half ago. Now we're flying spy planes off their Southern coast where there is absolutely zero American interests except to see what they're up to.
For once, can't America bow its head in admission of guilt, and quietly ask for its people to be returned unharmed?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 14:20
salimander
Member
Registered: Monday, 19 February 2001
Posts: 19
truthseeker or pinhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
we are not at fault for some incompetent pilot who cant control his plane, for starter it was not a spy plane look it up, it was a recon mission
we were in international air space and its the jet who hit us not us hit them, china is a child nation that doesnt diserve the right to own planes let alone a so called competent military.
we should go up against them, we would use them as toilet paper against our buts. they would run like saddams cowardly army. its time we rid us our this yellow and red nuisance!!!
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 14:42
pken
Member
Registered: Thursday, 21 September 2000
Posts: 447
For once, let's wake up........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and realize that China is not our friend, our most favored trading partner, or anybody that we should take sh!t from.
Anything made in China, don't buy it, leave it on the shelf. We have the power to stop their economy in it's tracks. It would be good for American business and create more American jobs.
Ryaner,
Do you think thetruthseeker character is really a commie? geography has some wierd views also. They're different alright, but I don't think they are commies. They sure like to twist things around backwards though.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 16:06
Greenhat_
Member
Registered: Saturday, 09 December 2000
Posts: 909
Geography
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Has made it clear that he is a socialist.
Regarding the aircraft, while the media continues to call the aircraft a "spy" plane, I would like to know what it was pretending to be? I always thought that a "spy" was an agent that committed espionage by pretending to be something that it wasn't. That is why soldiers are required to be in uniform. Was that aircraft not labeled clearly with "US Navy"?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 18:00
tjcrew99
Member
Registered: Friday, 08 December 2000
Posts: 118
NOT A "SPY" PLANE...
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RECONNAISSANCE plane!!!
If China wants to do the same thing to the U.S. and listen in on us by flying one of their planes 12.5 miles off the coast of California (over international waters) than let them. Oh, that's right, they don't have the ability to build planes that can do that...and they want to be called a super power. Jeesh!
Listen, we do it to everyone...even our allies, who in turn do the same to us, IF they have that technological ability to pull it off that is.
And to those who think that it was the EP-3 that out manuevered the Chinese fighter and caused the accident...GET REAL!!! Either the J-8 (by the way, the F-8 designation refers to its export version) is the slowest fighter ever developed or the pilot fell asleep while tailing our aircraft.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 18:37
modell
Junior Member
Registered: Thursday, 30 November 2000
Posts: 3
What about our people?
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To heck with the darn plane, what about our people? It's an outrage that the Chinese government is denying our envoys access to the 24 American personnel who were aboard that aircraft. The Chinese government conducts as much intelligence gathering/espionage/spying against the United States as we do against them; indeed, they do not need sophisticated satellites or aircraft, as there is a large community of their citizens right here in our country. I am not a xenophobe, and I'm not proposing we limit immigration from China, or expel Chinese citizens living and working legally in our country. Nevertheless, intelligence gathering is always a two-way street, and the U.S. is not currently holding Chinese citizens as virtual hostages. Let our people go!
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 20:04
thetruthseeker
Junior Member
Registered: Tuesday, 03 April 2001
Posts: 3
Not recon....yes, a spy plane!
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For all you morons, why don't you read what Washington is calling this plane (what it is), a "Spy" plane. Read the article and wake up for once.
Article
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 21:06
Greenhat_
Member
Registered: Saturday, 09 December 2000
Posts: 909
Ah, I see
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You get your definitions of legal terms from CNN..well, truth seeker, CNN claimed that the US Military used Sarin Gas in Vietnam, too. Maybe you remember that episode? The one that didn't happen?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 22:21
mig1907
Member
Registered: Sunday, 03 December 2000
Posts: 91
"The united states was doing intelegance gathering, not spying". Oh, I am now enlightened. It is the same thing, oh, clever one. You were spying over there. It's just that the chineese got sick of it. You would have done the same thing if it were a chinese aircraft flying over US coasts.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 23:14
killerdale
Member
Registered: Monday, 05 March 2001
Posts: 53
mig
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whos side are you on? We have been gathering intel for years. If the Chinese could do it we couldnt stop them. Im starting to doubt that this was an accident. Who gives a fvck what the Chinese are tired of? It still dosent give them the right to hold our people, or strip equipment off our plane.
posted Tuesday,更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
thetruthseeker
Junior Member
Registered: Tuesday, 03 April 2001
Posts: 3
Spy plane - American Propaganda? Maybe we're wrong for once?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we all read between the lines here please?! Our plane was spying on the Chinese and they responded. No matter what our government would like us to believe, we're the ones at fault here. We screwed up and our plane had to land in "enemy" territory. We need to suck it up and accept that. Bush is now demanding that they return our plane and the technology aboard it as if they had stolen it from us. What a joke. Do you think if the shoe were on the other foot, that we would return their technology? Of course not. The last time I checked, the expression "to the victor go the spoils" still applies. Not that China has won any war over us here, but we clearly screwed up and our new President can't own up to it and is trying to play it off to the American public like it's the fault of the Chinese. His unwillingness to stop the buck will hurt our relations with China and possibly get us into a confrontation. Why did we elect him again? What a moron.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 13:21
Ryaner
Member
Registered: Tuesday, 06 February 2001
Posts: 180
We weren't spying
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The united states was doing intelegance gathering, not spying. Spying is espionage. China is at fualt and owes the u.s an apology for harrassing our aircraft in international airspace.
Your prabobly a communist anyway.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 13:46
MEllickson
Junior Member
Registered: Monday, 12 February 2001
Posts: 2
American aircraft
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The EP-3 Orion is not a spy plane, it is a surveilance plane. All countries use this type of aircraft for the same thing. Our plane was over international waters, and was doing nothing wrong. The Chinese fighters that intercepted it (which is also a routine occurance) were far more maneuverable than the lumbering Orion, and thus the responsibility was on them to make sure that something like this didn't happen. With the recent history of Chinese espionage against the United States, I wouldn't doubt that this was not an accident at all. How better to get a hold of state of the art American Technology? And yes, if they don't return the plane they are thieves, and if they continue to hold the crew, they are no more than terrorists.
We need to get our people and equipment back at ANY cost. And anyone who thinks differently doesn't belong in the military. After all, would you want to fight with someone who would leave you behind?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 14:08
geography
Member
Registered: Friday, 24 November 2000
Posts: 139
Any cost? Equipment is equipment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forget about the airplane. It is China's now.
And surveilance is not spying? Is the U-2 not a spy plane?
A spy plane is a spy plane, and the EP-3 is a spy plane. AND it was in a very sensitive area. If we are going to have planes in the Gulf of Tonkin (THAT place again!), then we must be prepared for the occassional loss.
Would you be angry if China had spy planes "routinely" flying off the Southern Coast of the U.S. in the Gulf of Mexico? Or even off of the West Coast?
Let's just take a deep breath and think about this. China's planes got a little frisky when the P-3 refused to leave the area, and an accident happened.
Remember, people, we just bombed their embassy a year and a half ago. Now we're flying spy planes off their Southern coast where there is absolutely zero American interests except to see what they're up to.
For once, can't America bow its head in admission of guilt, and quietly ask for its people to be returned unharmed?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 14:20
salimander
Member
Registered: Monday, 19 February 2001
Posts: 19
truthseeker or pinhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
we are not at fault for some incompetent pilot who cant control his plane, for starter it was not a spy plane look it up, it was a recon mission
we were in international air space and its the jet who hit us not us hit them, china is a child nation that doesnt diserve the right to own planes let alone a so called competent military.
we should go up against them, we would use them as toilet paper against our buts. they would run like saddams cowardly army. its time we rid us our this yellow and red nuisance!!!
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 14:42
pken
Member
Registered: Thursday, 21 September 2000
Posts: 447
For once, let's wake up........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and realize that China is not our friend, our most favored trading partner, or anybody that we should take sh!t from.
Anything made in China, don't buy it, leave it on the shelf. We have the power to stop their economy in it's tracks. It would be good for American business and create more American jobs.
Ryaner,
Do you think thetruthseeker character is really a commie? geography has some wierd views also. They're different alright, but I don't think they are commies. They sure like to twist things around backwards though.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 16:06
Greenhat_
Member
Registered: Saturday, 09 December 2000
Posts: 909
Geography
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has made it clear that he is a socialist.
Regarding the aircraft, while the media continues to call the aircraft a "spy" plane, I would like to know what it was pretending to be? I always thought that a "spy" was an agent that committed espionage by pretending to be something that it wasn't. That is why soldiers are required to be in uniform. Was that aircraft not labeled clearly with "US Navy"?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 18:00
tjcrew99
Member
Registered: Friday, 08 December 2000
Posts: 118
NOT A "SPY" PLANE...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RECONNAISSANCE plane!!!
If China wants to do the same thing to the U.S. and listen in on us by flying one of their planes 12.5 miles off the coast of California (over international waters) than let them. Oh, that's right, they don't have the ability to build planes that can do that...and they want to be called a super power. Jeesh!
Listen, we do it to everyone...even our allies, who in turn do the same to us, IF they have that technological ability to pull it off that is.
And to those who think that it was the EP-3 that out manuevered the Chinese fighter and caused the accident...GET REAL!!! Either the J-8 (by the way, the F-8 designation refers to its export version) is the slowest fighter ever developed or the pilot fell asleep while tailing our aircraft.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 18:37
modell
Junior Member
Registered: Thursday, 30 November 2000
Posts: 3
What about our people?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To heck with the darn plane, what about our people? It's an outrage that the Chinese government is denying our envoys access to the 24 American personnel who were aboard that aircraft. The Chinese government conducts as much intelligence gathering/espionage/spying against the United States as we do against them; indeed, they do not need sophisticated satellites or aircraft, as there is a large community of their citizens right here in our country. I am not a xenophobe, and I'm not proposing we limit immigration from China, or expel Chinese citizens living and working legally in our country. Nevertheless, intelligence gathering is always a two-way street, and the U.S. is not currently holding Chinese citizens as virtual hostages. Let our people go!
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 20:04
thetruthseeker
Junior Member
Registered: Tuesday, 03 April 2001
Posts: 3
Not recon....yes, a spy plane!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For all you morons, why don't you read what Washington is calling this plane (what it is), a "Spy" plane. Read the article and wake up for once.
Article
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 21:06
Greenhat_
Member
Registered: Saturday, 09 December 2000
Posts: 909
Ah, I see
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You get your definitions of legal terms from CNN..well, truth seeker, CNN claimed that the US Military used Sarin Gas in Vietnam, too. Maybe you remember that episode? The one that didn't happen?
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 22:21
mig1907
Member
Registered: Sunday, 03 December 2000
Posts: 91
"The united states was doing intelegance gathering, not spying". Oh, I am now enlightened. It is the same thing, oh, clever one. You were spying over there. It's just that the chineese got sick of it. You would have done the same thing if it were a chinese aircraft flying over US coasts.
posted Tuesday, 03 April 2001 23:14
killerdale
Member
Registered: Monday, 05 March 2001
Posts: 53
mig
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whos side are you on? We have been gathering intel for years. If the Chinese could do it we couldnt stop them. Im starting to doubt that this was an accident. Who gives a fvck what the Chinese are tired of? It still dosent give them the right to hold our people, or strip equipment off our plane.
posted Tuesday,更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net